Cadillac thinks a big coupe makes a statement ?

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 11/27/2013 at 16:12 • Filed to: None

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Reuss said, "You make a statement with a coupe. You don't make a statement with a sedan."

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No, just no. If you arrive at an event in an Esccalade or a big hd truck, the people there, will think you're a drug dealer, or a redneck. If you arrive in a CL, or a Bentley Continental or a Cadillac Elmiraj, maybe 10 out 100 people will care. But if you arrive in a Ferrari, a McLaren, an Aston or a Lamborghini or even an LFA or Pagani(for those with really deep pockets), yes, you make a statement. People will say that not only you are wealthy enough to buy a supercar, you are prepared to live with a supercar, even if modern ones are not as hardcore as supercars of old. That's a statement. Cadillac needs to follow Audi's footsteps and have Audi's success, because they will never be Bentley or Rolls Royce, they will the American Maybach, and we all know what happened to Maybach.

Having a GTE Cadillac, that fights Porsches, Ferraris and Astons on tracks, that's what makes a statement, Mr. Reuss.

But you won't do it, because it will compete with your precious, little Corvette.

Hindered23 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:15

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everything you just said supports the idea that you make a statement with a coupe.

HammerheadFistpunch > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:17

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The Elmaraj and Ciel made a hell of a buzz, and I would double take for either over an R8. A supercar isn't what Cadillac needs for their image. Its sports saloons and they are killing it.

area man > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:17

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Self-defeating argument is self-defeating.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Hindered23 11/27/2013 at 16:18

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But a super coupe. Not just any regular ass affordable coupe.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Hindered23 11/27/2013 at 16:22

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A coupe that's also a supercar, I meant. Size alone doesn't make a statement.

m2m, apex detective > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:23

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The statement that you're too shy to attempt making a statement with a sedan.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:23

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I'm sorry they need the Elmiraj soooo bad.

And just in case you weren't aware. Cadillac has made a Corvette competitor before. It's the same car with a Caddy motor. It's called an XLR. I personally think they look great, but I'd rather have the Vette motor in it. They even had an XLR-V. They aren't afraid of competing with the Corvette. They just know it's not Cadillac's job.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:26

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Do you live in Monaco by any chance? I think a Bentley or Elmiraj will make a nice statement car, thank you very much.

And all these cars are coupes so you're agreeing with him by disagreeing with him.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > HammerheadFistpunch 11/27/2013 at 16:29

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What about fun to drive and pure performance?

Also, what Cadillac needs is to have a generation that will grow up, having the image of a cool Cadillac brand, it needs a bedroom wall poster car, for kids around the world, that's what makes a global brand cool, because those kids and teens will grow up and say "yeah, Cadillac is cool, I had a poster of a Cadillac back in my bedroom" instead of "Cadillac? I know gramps. still drives that, get that thing away from me".

JR1 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:30

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I'm not sure I agree the big coupes (such as rolls or Bentley) are unique and make a statement. People notice those cars and if Cadillac comes out with a new "super coupe" it will look unique and different and I think people will notice and it will make a statement.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/27/2013 at 16:35

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That was pretty good for a first try, they should've continued with the project, the Corvette has it's followers that won't buy a Cadillac ever, just as Porsche followers won't buy an Audi, also the Cien is MR and more exotic, a totally different animal compared to an FR Corvette.

HammerheadFistpunch > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:36

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"Cadillac - Standard of the World"

Nothing in there about "poster car material" or "Kids think its cool"

Its just not what they need, they are a prestige brand and the image is less "we have a point to proof" and more "We just are". As far as pure performance? the ATS and CTS-V sport are the best driving cars in their class. If your car out drives "the ultimate driving machine" Im pretty sure there is plenty of performance or fun to drive.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 11/27/2013 at 16:38

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They are supercars, beside being coupes. A 2.5 tons Elmiraj won't be a supercar, ever.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:40

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I doubt an Elmiraj will weigh that much. Bentley makes its cars heavy on purpose, Cadillac tries to be as light as possible.

And remind yourself how much a Veyron or F12 Berlinetta weighs- both well over 4k lbs.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:48

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I agree that they are different but I was counter-pointing your argument about how they won't build something to compete with the corvette.

I'm sure they weighed the market and decided that a MR exotic wasn't profitable for Cadillac. Would it be now? Maybe now that their perception is skyrocketing. I still think they need a serious big 2 door contender though.

Pessimippopotamus > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:51

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What about fun to drive and pure performance?

You mean like the well-received V models they've been putting out? They're not scalpel sharp sports cars, but they certainly bring the drama and brand awareness, which is exactly what the company needs. Besides, despite years of racing success (that's right, against Porsches, Corvettes, Vipers, and recently R8s, SLSs, GTRs, and Lamborghinis), no one thinks of supercars when they think of Cadillac, but it certainly boosted CTS and the V brand's visibility. A big stately coupe like the Elmiraj is more likely to attract appropriate customers to Cadillac. It makes no sense to ignore Cadillac image's strong point to fight an unnecessary uphill battle against well-established sportscar brands in an overburgeoning market, especially when they are now setting their sights on a market that's historically associated with Cadillac: luxury sedans, luxury coupes, SUVs, etc...

As for Audi, it helped that Audi readily had a midengine platform available from Lamborghini. GM would have to spend money developing a platform that only one car would use. That makes no sense for a production model, not a limited run like the Ford GT or the LFA, which are sold with the companies accepting massive writeoffs in production costs, which Cadillac in current state can't afford. And the Maybach comparison isn't apt. Maybach failed because it was just a bigger version of the S-Class and people who drop that kind of money want cars that look special, not bloated versions of an existing car. All of which is null point since Cadillac is likely gunning for the S-Class market, not Maybach market, and a production Elmiraj is most likely a E/CL-Class rival, which is perfect for its current range and its historical image.

AMC/Renauledge > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 16:52

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THAT coupe - the Elmiraj - makes a big statement. I will give him that.

So did the 8-Series. And the Wraith. And a host of other big, luxurious coupes.

Supercars are easy. The annals of history are littered with a great many one-offs, limited-production models, and fly-by-night marques. That's why so many companies have started off with them, with ambitions to grow into other segments.

Big, beautiful, comfortable, powerful, spacious, luxurious coupes? They're a little harder to get right.

Victorious Secret > Hindered23 11/27/2013 at 16:54

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But a super coupe.

A CL level car.

A car that says "Fuck you, I'm so rich I can do such things"

Yea, thats exactly what Cadillac needs. Something that just screams EXCESS.

Victorious Secret > HammerheadFistpunch 11/27/2013 at 16:55

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The Elmiraj could be Cadillac's CL.

A car that says "I've got money and I'm classy and fuck you and your Bentley I went with something unique"

HammerheadFistpunch > Victorious Secret 11/27/2013 at 17:05

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My favorite kinds of luxury cars all say "Screw you! because: Money." and if the Elmiraj says nothing else, its that.

Pessimippopotamus > Victorious Secret 11/27/2013 at 17:05

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Exactly. A supercar comes off as a desperate cry for attention. A CL-like landbarges make meaningful statements about the owner.

Then there's true excess like Bentley Brooklands.

Hindered23 > Victorious Secret 11/27/2013 at 17:13

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I would also like to see this car

Victorious Secret > Pessimippopotamus 11/27/2013 at 17:41

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And lest we forget, Mercedes especially doesn't go into the full supercar mode all the time. The SLR and SLS are tiny drops.

Cars like the SL and CL are full on land barges. Maybe not the SL65 Black because that thing is sheer madness. You get absurd amounts of luxury first, raw power next, performance last.

That Bentley pretty much screams "IM RICH BIATCH" but in a classy way that Cadillac could also do.

Pessimippopotamus > Victorious Secret 11/27/2013 at 17:50

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Yup. Also, the SLS and SLR worked because Mercedes could properly outsource development and not detract from core operations, which GM can't pull off unless they gave it to someone like the Corvette team, whom, I don't think, knows how to build super luxo coupes.

Victorious Secret > Pessimippopotamus 11/27/2013 at 18:00

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Thats a big one. Mercedes had McLaren and then had the Dodge team with the new Viper and all that crap. Their costs are laughably low and thus is the risk.

Plus their entire AMG business model lends itself to just raking in easy money so they can go around and experiment a little.

I say, leave the Corvette team to make the supercar that they think GM needs. Let Cadillac build up a extensive portfolio of sedans and coupes for people in the mass market. Maybe in 10-15 years you can come back and say "Hey, Cadillac has a lot of spare money and we have a platform from the Corvette guys, lets make a luxurious supercar akin to the SLS or F12 or what have you"

PS9 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/27/2013 at 20:06

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Bespoke engines and chassis are neat, but there's a reason only a few firms on this planet can get away with making cars like that. Cadillac isn't in a position to become one of those firms anytime soon.

They've much improved their position and status from the bad old days of FWD Northstars, but they still have massive holes in their product lineup they need to fill before becoming fully on par with Germany, and they are carefully doing that one excellent product at a time. That's where their manpower, investment, and capital need to go, if they want to be in a position to someday ask $500k or more for one of their products. They aren't there today, and likely won't be for a few decades. That's why the Cein didn't happen, and why we're guaranteed to not see anything like it happen for another few decades, if Caddy continues to play it's cards right.

The Cien is dead. It's as dead as the Sixteen. I'm not happy about that in this Sixteen's case, but it is what it is. There's plenty of other MR unicorns in the world for us gawk at. No need to obsess over the one that got away.

PS9 > AMC/Renauledge 11/27/2013 at 20:11

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A lot of companies that start there (supercars) end there, too. Turns out bespoke Chassis and engines aren't cheap to make. Couple that with the fact that other supercar makers who have been in the business longer than you, have already made and learned from the same mistakes you're about to make, and are already in a position to do what you do, only better, faster and cheaper than you can do it, and you have one of the hardest business related things any firm can try to do. A minefield, that many others have already lost themselves trying to cross.

Caddy has 0% reason to submit themselves to that at this point in their history.

exizeo - still loving fourza > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 11/28/2013 at 17:39

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For the tl;dr: A coupe doesn't make a statement, a good coupe makes a statement. Everybody wants a Lamborghini or Ferrari. Nobody except enthusiasts even knows about the Elmiraj.